Transcript
BROOKE GLADSTONE:
This is On the Media. I'm Brooke Gladstone.
BOB GARFIELD:
And I'm Bob Garfield. A few years ago, Lou Dobbs was the host of CNN's Money Line, and, as such, one of the world's most prominent financial journalists. But in the past three years, with his program renamed Lou Dobbs Tonight, his prominence has dramatically increased – also his audience, his air time, now six days a week – and his stridency.
[MUSIC UP AND UNDER]
LOU DOBBS (ON AIR):
And will Congress give amnesty to millions of illegal aliens who have crossed over -
LOU DOBBS (ON AIR):
And a proposed federal plan to hold employers of illegal aliens accountable. Is this government finally beginning to understand -
LOU DOBBS (ON AIR):
What - food insecurity?
WOMAN:
There's low food security -
LOU DOBBS (ON AIR):
These are just abject idiots. I don't even want to-
LOU DOBBS (ON AIR):
The deputy mayor of a small Texas town -
LOU DOBBS (ON AIR):
- among a growing number of cities and towns across the nation taking action on their own to confront our illegal immigration crisis while the federal government does nothing.
[MUSIC TAG]
BOB GARFIELD:
Dobbs has turned his evening hour into a daily diatribe on the perils of free trade, the travails of the middle class, and especially the threat of illegal immigration. He calls the influx of illegals an "invasion," the kind of rhetoric that prompted a response from Andrea Batista Schlesinger, executive director of the Drum Major Institute, a think tank dedicated to strengthening America's middle class.
In an open letter, she asked Dobbs to consider the ways in which legal and illegal immigration strengthen our communities.
ANDREA BATISTA SCHLESINGER:
So when I got on the show, he introduced me right from the start as a leading critic of his border control policy, and essentially the show went downhill from there.
The first question, and I don't know if this is typical of journalists, but the first question was something to the effect of what's wrong with, or doesn't it make sense that? And that was basically, you know, the tenor of the interview, that he has the monopoly on what makes sense.
I mean, he was not interested in actually hearing what I had to say. He was interested in explaining what he had to say as if it were the most commonsense thing that everybody would agree upon.
I thought I was going on that show to have a serious conversation that, you know, weighed the pros and the cons of immigration policies that are on the table. Instead, I was a foil for a lecture on the difference between a Hispanic and an immigrant, which, as a Hispanic and the daughter of an immigrant, I found very enlightening. It wasn't a conversation. I had about 30 seconds to make my case.
BOB GARFIELD:
Did you say to him, are you out of your mind, how dare you?
ANDREA BATISTA SCHLESINGER:
Well, I was stunned, and I was a little embarrassed. But I said, that was 30 seconds. I thought we were going to talk.
The most interesting piece of the interview experience was what happened on my BlackBerry in the five minutes following my appearance. I mean, it was rattling uncontrollably with emails – probably 30, 50 within the next hour, you know, with vitriol – people taking on everything from my position, legitimately, to my choice of shirt.
It was incredible in that short a time period. People had to literally watch the show, go onto their computers, find my organization, find my email address and then compose emails. They were motivated by the kind of ire that Lou whips up. And that's my real critique of him is that he leaves people with nothing constructive.
BOB GARFIELD:
You know, what can we learn from this episode?
ANDREA BATISTA SCHLESINGER:
Well, obviously I have new ideas about what to wear when I go on [BOB LAUGHS] Lou Dobbs. So there was a lesson learned for me. The reason that I'm obsessed with Lou instead of hating him is because there are very few media outlets that will talk about all of these things in the way that people actually experience them.
So, you know, people watching Lou's show don't think, you know, today is health care day for me. Today is an education policy day for me. Today is, you know, tax cuts for me. They think about their overall condition, because their difficulty paying their gas bills is related to their tax policy and their property taxes for their home, which is related to the money that they're spending sending their kids to college, which is related to the fact that they're not secure any longer about their retirement.
So they experience things as an overall feeling of anxiety. And Lou speaks directly to that anxiety.
BOB GARFIELD:
Well, but isn't there a word for that? On the one hand, you could say it's sensitive, but isn't it also demagoguery?
ANDREA BATISTA SCHLESINGER:
His behavior is demagoguery. His approach to linking all of these issues together, to speak truth to a condition that people are feeling in a way that will resonate with them, is important. I don't think that's demagoguery. I think that's smart. We have to look at how all of these issues connect, and he does.
BOB GARFIELD:
Andrea, thank you.
ANDREA BATISTA SCHLESINGER:
Thank you so much.
BOB GARFIELD:
Andrea Batista Schlesinger is executive director of the Drum Major Institute.
This is On the Media. I'm Brooke Gladstone.
BOB GARFIELD:
And I'm Bob Garfield. A few years ago, Lou Dobbs was the host of CNN's Money Line, and, as such, one of the world's most prominent financial journalists. But in the past three years, with his program renamed Lou Dobbs Tonight, his prominence has dramatically increased – also his audience, his air time, now six days a week – and his stridency.
[MUSIC UP AND UNDER]
LOU DOBBS (ON AIR):
And will Congress give amnesty to millions of illegal aliens who have crossed over -
LOU DOBBS (ON AIR):
And a proposed federal plan to hold employers of illegal aliens accountable. Is this government finally beginning to understand -
LOU DOBBS (ON AIR):
What - food insecurity?
WOMAN:
There's low food security -
LOU DOBBS (ON AIR):
These are just abject idiots. I don't even want to-
LOU DOBBS (ON AIR):
The deputy mayor of a small Texas town -
LOU DOBBS (ON AIR):
- among a growing number of cities and towns across the nation taking action on their own to confront our illegal immigration crisis while the federal government does nothing.
[MUSIC TAG]
BOB GARFIELD:
Dobbs has turned his evening hour into a daily diatribe on the perils of free trade, the travails of the middle class, and especially the threat of illegal immigration. He calls the influx of illegals an "invasion," the kind of rhetoric that prompted a response from Andrea Batista Schlesinger, executive director of the Drum Major Institute, a think tank dedicated to strengthening America's middle class.
In an open letter, she asked Dobbs to consider the ways in which legal and illegal immigration strengthen our communities.
ANDREA BATISTA SCHLESINGER:
So when I got on the show, he introduced me right from the start as a leading critic of his border control policy, and essentially the show went downhill from there.
The first question, and I don't know if this is typical of journalists, but the first question was something to the effect of what's wrong with, or doesn't it make sense that? And that was basically, you know, the tenor of the interview, that he has the monopoly on what makes sense.
I mean, he was not interested in actually hearing what I had to say. He was interested in explaining what he had to say as if it were the most commonsense thing that everybody would agree upon.
I thought I was going on that show to have a serious conversation that, you know, weighed the pros and the cons of immigration policies that are on the table. Instead, I was a foil for a lecture on the difference between a Hispanic and an immigrant, which, as a Hispanic and the daughter of an immigrant, I found very enlightening. It wasn't a conversation. I had about 30 seconds to make my case.
BOB GARFIELD:
Did you say to him, are you out of your mind, how dare you?
ANDREA BATISTA SCHLESINGER:
Well, I was stunned, and I was a little embarrassed. But I said, that was 30 seconds. I thought we were going to talk.
The most interesting piece of the interview experience was what happened on my BlackBerry in the five minutes following my appearance. I mean, it was rattling uncontrollably with emails – probably 30, 50 within the next hour, you know, with vitriol – people taking on everything from my position, legitimately, to my choice of shirt.
It was incredible in that short a time period. People had to literally watch the show, go onto their computers, find my organization, find my email address and then compose emails. They were motivated by the kind of ire that Lou whips up. And that's my real critique of him is that he leaves people with nothing constructive.
BOB GARFIELD:
You know, what can we learn from this episode?
ANDREA BATISTA SCHLESINGER:
Well, obviously I have new ideas about what to wear when I go on [BOB LAUGHS] Lou Dobbs. So there was a lesson learned for me. The reason that I'm obsessed with Lou instead of hating him is because there are very few media outlets that will talk about all of these things in the way that people actually experience them.
So, you know, people watching Lou's show don't think, you know, today is health care day for me. Today is an education policy day for me. Today is, you know, tax cuts for me. They think about their overall condition, because their difficulty paying their gas bills is related to their tax policy and their property taxes for their home, which is related to the money that they're spending sending their kids to college, which is related to the fact that they're not secure any longer about their retirement.
So they experience things as an overall feeling of anxiety. And Lou speaks directly to that anxiety.
BOB GARFIELD:
Well, but isn't there a word for that? On the one hand, you could say it's sensitive, but isn't it also demagoguery?
ANDREA BATISTA SCHLESINGER:
His behavior is demagoguery. His approach to linking all of these issues together, to speak truth to a condition that people are feeling in a way that will resonate with them, is important. I don't think that's demagoguery. I think that's smart. We have to look at how all of these issues connect, and he does.
BOB GARFIELD:
Andrea, thank you.
ANDREA BATISTA SCHLESINGER:
Thank you so much.
BOB GARFIELD:
Andrea Batista Schlesinger is executive director of the Drum Major Institute.