Transcript
BOB GARFIELD: This is On the Media. I'm Bob Garfield. We've just heard about one way internet technology is pushing the envelope of everything we thought we knew about TV broadcasting. But, thanks to the ever-expanding capacity of internet servers and hard drives, radio too is at a crossroads. Radio broadcasts, of course, happen at a given time, and receivers are either tuned in or not. Even satellite radio, which conquers the limitations of the radio signal, is fixed in time. But what if a radio program could be harvested and stored for internet distribution and play later, at the convenience of the user? Then you would have what's called podcasting -- a technology that has come from nowhere over the past few months. This program, in fact, marks the first NPR show to be distributed that way as well as over the air. Joining me now to discuss podcasting is Tod Maffin, the technology columnist for CBC Radio. Tod, welcome to On the Media.
TOD MAFFIN: Thank you.
BOB GARFIELD: Okay, please break it down for us -- what is podcasting, and where did it come from?
TOD MAFFIN: Well, quite frankly, all a podcast is, is attaching an audio file to a blog posting. How it's different in an incredible way is that you can subscribe to one of these feeds, essentially, and as soon as there's new content, it automatically transfers that radio show directly into your MP3 player or ipod, which is where it gets the name podcasting. So, in other words, in the morning, you know, over the course of the night, it's downloaded all of these radio shows that you tune into, and you just pick up your ipod or MP3 player of choice and go jogging or take it on the commute in.
BOB GARFIELD: So it sounds like, essentially, a TiVo for the radio. There would be no excuse for anyone to miss any future broadcast of On the Media, because [LAUGHTER] it's just sitting there waiting for you.
TOD MAFFIN: Well, that's right, and I mean this is one of the areas that I find so exciting about the technology. Radio programmers for decades have been trying to convince the listening audience to go into a phase that is referred to in the industry as appointment listening --I want them to all tune in to my show at X time. Well, that's not the way we use radio. The way the listeners use radio is you're driving or you're doing the dishes or you're doing housework or something like that -- it's on in the background. Now, we're just letting the listeners choose the time that's best for them.
BOB GARFIELD: You've been following this for some months now, and you must have heard some remarkable programming from hitherto unexpected sources, and you must have heard an awful lot of drek. What's out there?
TOD MAFFIN: [LAUGHS] A lot of drek. [LAUGHS] There really is. But I mean I think in many cases there's a lot of really solid content. One of my favorite podcasts is produced here in Canada called Coverville dot com - which is a guy that just likes cover music and tribute bands, and he plays, you know, 45 minute shows. One of the most popular podcasts right now is called The Dawn and Drew Show which is produced by a married couple who just sort of chat for about 45 minutes before they go to bed. [TAPE PLAYS]
DAWN: The laundry is done.
DREW: Yep.
DAWN: Drew and I have seemed to have gone on some kind of laundry strike.
DREW: Sabbatical.
DAWN: Yes. Sabbatical.
DREW: [LAUGHS] [TAPE ENDS]
TOD MAFFIN: You know, Bob -- I can't tell you what it is about that show -- they talk about nothing --but it is the most compelling [LAUGHS] listening somehow-- [LAUGHTER] because it's unique! You feel like you're getting into someone's head, and, and you don't get that very much from radio.
BOB GARFIELD: I want to talk to you about the famous internet promise democratization. Now, obviously, this broadcast, which is now a podcast, is brought to you by WNYC and NPR -two enormous institutions. But just as blogs brought poorly-capitalized and obscure people to the forefront, don't you expect that just regular Joe's who have something to say can now podcast their way into the national or even global consciousness?
TOD MAFFIN: Yeah. And I think that's great. I mean I think it is very much revolutionary. You know, you're seeing how these podcasters are teaching themselves the tools of the radio trade. It's sort of like Radio Boot Camp 101 on their own dime. It's very easy for a radio network to pick up on that. One great example is Treasure Island Oldies dot com, which started out many years ago as one of the first streaming internet radio shows -- developed a loyal following and was suddenly picked up by radio stations around the world. You know, you're listening to these amateur radio producers learning the craft on air, as it were. So you hear people, you know, make mistakes and re-voice something or feed the dog in the middle of their podcast, and ironically, in that way, this medium is a lot more like the old-fashioned style of radio where things were live -- there was a sort of a more heightened sense of surprise in it, and I think that's only good for radio.
BOB GARFIELD: Now, one of the advantages of radio historically has been that it is live -- its immediacy is very important to the whole radio experience, and then of course there's the issue of news, weather, sports and traffic, which drive a whole lot of radio listening. Does podcasting have built-in limitations because it is not operating in the here and now?
TOD MAFFIN: Absolutely. This is a store and retrieve model. But you might see it sort of evolve the way that television has, which is for those people who can afford the devices like TiVo or Replay TV - those PVRs - they're sort of the rich cousins of the television world -there'll always be live television for special events like sports broadcasts and news broadcasts. I think similarly, with podcasting, there'll always be the need for live radio - for live breaking news. I mean radio does that more effectively than any medium, just because we don't need to set up cameras or lights. We just go on the air with a cell phone. I think this is just a different medium, a different way of extending that kind of content.
BOB GARFIELD: All right. This show is being broadcast in January of 2005. When can WNYC just blow up its broadcast towers? When can we stop transmitting over the air?
TOD MAFFIN: I would guess the FCC probably wouldn't let you do that. [LAUGHS] But-- I don't think you'd want to do that either. I think there's going to be a need for both. One of the big misnomers about technology is that it replaces things. You know, video didn't kill the radio star. I don't think podcasters will kill the radio star. I think they'll just change the radio star.
BOB GARFIELD: Okay, Tod. Finally, you are participating in the first podcast in the history of National Public Radio. Do you want to say "Hi, mom?"
TOD MAFFIN: [LAUGHS] Hi, mom. [LAUGHS]
BOB GARFIELD: All right. Tod Maffin is the technology columnist for CBC Radio. He spoke to us from Vancouver. You can read his thoughts on technology and media at ILoveRadio.org. [MUSIC]
TOD MAFFIN: Thank you.
BOB GARFIELD: Okay, please break it down for us -- what is podcasting, and where did it come from?
TOD MAFFIN: Well, quite frankly, all a podcast is, is attaching an audio file to a blog posting. How it's different in an incredible way is that you can subscribe to one of these feeds, essentially, and as soon as there's new content, it automatically transfers that radio show directly into your MP3 player or ipod, which is where it gets the name podcasting. So, in other words, in the morning, you know, over the course of the night, it's downloaded all of these radio shows that you tune into, and you just pick up your ipod or MP3 player of choice and go jogging or take it on the commute in.
BOB GARFIELD: So it sounds like, essentially, a TiVo for the radio. There would be no excuse for anyone to miss any future broadcast of On the Media, because [LAUGHTER] it's just sitting there waiting for you.
TOD MAFFIN: Well, that's right, and I mean this is one of the areas that I find so exciting about the technology. Radio programmers for decades have been trying to convince the listening audience to go into a phase that is referred to in the industry as appointment listening --I want them to all tune in to my show at X time. Well, that's not the way we use radio. The way the listeners use radio is you're driving or you're doing the dishes or you're doing housework or something like that -- it's on in the background. Now, we're just letting the listeners choose the time that's best for them.
BOB GARFIELD: You've been following this for some months now, and you must have heard some remarkable programming from hitherto unexpected sources, and you must have heard an awful lot of drek. What's out there?
TOD MAFFIN: [LAUGHS] A lot of drek. [LAUGHS] There really is. But I mean I think in many cases there's a lot of really solid content. One of my favorite podcasts is produced here in Canada called Coverville dot com - which is a guy that just likes cover music and tribute bands, and he plays, you know, 45 minute shows. One of the most popular podcasts right now is called The Dawn and Drew Show which is produced by a married couple who just sort of chat for about 45 minutes before they go to bed. [TAPE PLAYS]
DAWN: The laundry is done.
DREW: Yep.
DAWN: Drew and I have seemed to have gone on some kind of laundry strike.
DREW: Sabbatical.
DAWN: Yes. Sabbatical.
DREW: [LAUGHS] [TAPE ENDS]
TOD MAFFIN: You know, Bob -- I can't tell you what it is about that show -- they talk about nothing --but it is the most compelling [LAUGHS] listening somehow-- [LAUGHTER] because it's unique! You feel like you're getting into someone's head, and, and you don't get that very much from radio.
BOB GARFIELD: I want to talk to you about the famous internet promise democratization. Now, obviously, this broadcast, which is now a podcast, is brought to you by WNYC and NPR -two enormous institutions. But just as blogs brought poorly-capitalized and obscure people to the forefront, don't you expect that just regular Joe's who have something to say can now podcast their way into the national or even global consciousness?
TOD MAFFIN: Yeah. And I think that's great. I mean I think it is very much revolutionary. You know, you're seeing how these podcasters are teaching themselves the tools of the radio trade. It's sort of like Radio Boot Camp 101 on their own dime. It's very easy for a radio network to pick up on that. One great example is Treasure Island Oldies dot com, which started out many years ago as one of the first streaming internet radio shows -- developed a loyal following and was suddenly picked up by radio stations around the world. You know, you're listening to these amateur radio producers learning the craft on air, as it were. So you hear people, you know, make mistakes and re-voice something or feed the dog in the middle of their podcast, and ironically, in that way, this medium is a lot more like the old-fashioned style of radio where things were live -- there was a sort of a more heightened sense of surprise in it, and I think that's only good for radio.
BOB GARFIELD: Now, one of the advantages of radio historically has been that it is live -- its immediacy is very important to the whole radio experience, and then of course there's the issue of news, weather, sports and traffic, which drive a whole lot of radio listening. Does podcasting have built-in limitations because it is not operating in the here and now?
TOD MAFFIN: Absolutely. This is a store and retrieve model. But you might see it sort of evolve the way that television has, which is for those people who can afford the devices like TiVo or Replay TV - those PVRs - they're sort of the rich cousins of the television world -there'll always be live television for special events like sports broadcasts and news broadcasts. I think similarly, with podcasting, there'll always be the need for live radio - for live breaking news. I mean radio does that more effectively than any medium, just because we don't need to set up cameras or lights. We just go on the air with a cell phone. I think this is just a different medium, a different way of extending that kind of content.
BOB GARFIELD: All right. This show is being broadcast in January of 2005. When can WNYC just blow up its broadcast towers? When can we stop transmitting over the air?
TOD MAFFIN: I would guess the FCC probably wouldn't let you do that. [LAUGHS] But-- I don't think you'd want to do that either. I think there's going to be a need for both. One of the big misnomers about technology is that it replaces things. You know, video didn't kill the radio star. I don't think podcasters will kill the radio star. I think they'll just change the radio star.
BOB GARFIELD: Okay, Tod. Finally, you are participating in the first podcast in the history of National Public Radio. Do you want to say "Hi, mom?"
TOD MAFFIN: [LAUGHS] Hi, mom. [LAUGHS]
BOB GARFIELD: All right. Tod Maffin is the technology columnist for CBC Radio. He spoke to us from Vancouver. You can read his thoughts on technology and media at ILoveRadio.org. [MUSIC]